CANNOT open on MacOs15 Sequoia Beta1 #243
Comments
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I downloaded KindaVim from the official website and homebrew, then double-clicked it, but nothing happened. |
yeah. that was a bold move to except it to work on a first developer beta 🤣🤣🤣 especially on macOS 15. Swift 6 now. breaking changes. a lot of apps are gonna crash. kV included.
i did check how all my apps work on Sequoia and yeah two of them crash. might take some time to upgrade them to Swift 6. no idea. the whole thing was just released like a day ago.
什么哈哈哈哈哈哈哈 |
yeah nothing to do with download location. kV will just crash when you open it, that’s it. from the logs i kinda believe it’s from the event tap system. also Apple is release a whole new HID Framework in beta to handle keyboard presses etc. so yeah, i’m gonna do the work to get kV working for the macOS 15 release for sure, but no idea yeah how long it’s gonna take. will see if i can do some hack to make kV work in the betas tho. |
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OH, Thanks for your reply! I always thought that rolling back the version was as simple as clicking on the system boot, but I found out that it is not. This is too bad for me, not because the beta system is bad and cannot be rolled back, but because I found this treasure software the day after I updated the new system, but I can't use it.... This might help me cure my obsessive compulsive disorder... And may be exists other method that can temply run on macos15? In the end, thanks your development for vim ecology and waiting your good news! ( 可以中文沟通啊哈? ) |
MacOs15 Sequoia Beta1 does not have any new features as advertised. The experience is terrible! I was attracted by the new feature "iPhone Mirror", but it turned out to be unusable. Not only is there a lack of new features, but it also causes important and efficient software to crash. I think I will NOT upgrade any macos beta version in the future |
yes. it's a Developer Beta. it's made for developers to see if their apps are running well, try new APIs, etc. some APIs will be deprecated or removed so developers need to make changes. having the Developer Betas now gives a few months for developers to adjust. definitely not for the public. i don't even install the Public Beta on my production machines.
if you're just a user you better avoid the Developer Betas and try the Public Betas instead. usually they come out one month after the Developer ones. personally i don't install them on my prod machines yeah coz there's still issues, and i get used so quick to stuff not working that when the official release happens i don't wanna use those new stuff anymore 😂️ |
gonna work on it tonight. but busy the next couple of days. let's see.
you could install a macOS 14 VM with UTM: https://github.com/utmapp/UTM
my pleasure. i need my moves everywhere hehe.
可以吹水哈哈哈哈哈哈。我今年开始学普通话。我住在澳门，这里中国人说广东话但是我今年一个星期一次去大陆练习普通话hehe. |
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希望我会进步！中文很他妈难。操。 |
oh, got it. To be honest, I even not notice the develop beta tag, and never not noticed the difference between developer beta and public beta. After this time, I finally remembered. Fine... |
Thk! Waiting for your adapting! Actually I use karabiner for textinput all the time, so that i won't be stuck on small textinput.
But it only is vm, not on prod machine. hh, I can install a macos14 on my ParallelDesktop machine to just experience the smooth fuellings while using KD. |
哈哈，那是一个有活力的好地方！语言这个东西吧不是母语硬去学太费劲了，我从小到大到现在的英文水平也就刚会写流水账的吊样子。 Good night and thk again👏🏻 |
not so good news. first, if i compile on macOS 15 it doesn't crash. hmm. maybe the SDK. bad news tho is that Apple doesn't allow kV anymore to listen to keystrokes. not sure why. maybe another round of tightening security. hope kV will not require disabling the SIP, coz if that's the case then the project is off. will need more time to research, and no ETA possible.
yah, same as PD. |
我们要加油哈哈哈哈
will keep you updated for when i have something working. |
Oh, I forget to leave my sys info.
After your reminder and my experience yesterday, I also found a problem with the keyboard listening. That's a Safari extension, named 'Immersive Translate', whose basic function works well, only a function about holding 'alt' and then moving the mouse pointer to something content to translate is bad. Whatever I reinstall or reboot my PC or reset to default, no matter what I do it does always not work. I think maybe they are the same kind of problem, or else it is a new system-level strict security limit. Whatever, hope it is only a bug. Bless Bless Bless. |
I just remembered that 'KarabinerElements' always works well on macOS15, isn't its principle through listening to keyboard events to hijack and forward? It works well, maybe can throuthing some ideas for you. |
Karabiner-Elements is a low level keyboard virtual driver. it replaces the Apple keyboard driver and grabs everything at the OS level, before things are passed to other apps. it's a complete different system. kV doesn't need to do this. or shouldn't need. but if it's a new SIP restriction then yeah, might have to go the KE way. but that's a total different project lol |
Fine... Now I'm temporarily using VE's Vim mode. Good luck to us. 🧐 |
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I would like to ask, can KV be used in electronic applications such as Notion? |
you mean Electron? to be able to "calculate" Vim motions apps need to return a whole bunch of correct info. native apps do by default. Electron need to implement this themselves. most of them don't. in that case kV needs to do the Vim motions by simulating key presses rather than doing text calculations/manipulations. so some moves are missing, some are "less" accurate, etc. there's a Wizard that shows you the current information about an app, and where put it in the Settings. if an app is not found, you can request it and i investigate. 
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yeah, Spelling mistakes, I mean Electron app. I have seen your discuss on reddit, felling it's also a problem. Does the words 'you have to add it to the Key mapping' in the picture mean I can customize special commands such as mapping h to left arrow, mapping l to right arrow, mapping x to delete for special not working correctly apps( like some electron ) by myself to implement my vim motion in KE's settings? If this is what I think, maybe it's enough for some simple edit on Notion. |
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Report, Wooshy also can't run on macos15 like KV, only scrolla works well. |
TL;DR: with the Key Mapping Family kV will remap the keys for you. no need to add anything to K-E. longer explanation: nah. you'll be able to get more info from The Wizard when you can run kV. Screen.Recording.2024-06-16.at.11.06.15.movthere's some info also in the README from this repo but briefly. basically with kV the idea is that the user has to do as little as needed. but because of the nature of the project, macOS, non-native apps not respected standards etc., things can't be perfect. if the app kV is dealing with properly implements the macOS Accessibility, then kV manipulates text buffer. everything is calculated and manipulated, and the accuracy of the motions is usually on par with Vim. that's what is called the so why is this not done automatically? well actually it is lol. if kV detects that an app doesn't return proper data, then it switches to the BUT it's still more a little complicated than that:
so overall, there is this system of The Wizard. if you find that the app you're using doesn't work very well with kV, you send it to The Wizard. The Wizard tells you what's the issue with the app, and in which Family to put it, depending on what UX you're looking for. if The Wizard cannot find the app, you can make a request and i'll investigate how that app is done, and i'll be added to The Wizard in the next release. there's a use for K-E (and Hammerspoon) with kV tho: when you want to have custom remapping. currently there's no support in kV for custom remapping. one of the reason is that there's tools that are especially done for that, like K-E. so it's not a priority for now in kV. may be done one day, but if done it has to be done properly, so it's gonna take time. |
yes, same issue with event taps. seems that one is solvable more easily. i'm expecting a release next week. |
Ah, sorry, I spelled it wrong again. I mean KV not KE in the word "implement my vim motion in KE's settings?". And thanks very much for your detailed instructions again! Now that I have read your reply and understand, there are two ways to implement vim motion, one way that using system APIs can work well, and another way that only can implement read text moving by imitation or auto-remapping not modify content. If an app is not accepted in one of these two ways, there is no way to deal with that. |
hhh, good weekend, very very very looking forward to the day that KindaVim & Wooshy & Scrolla all can run on macos15, and thanks for your troublesome work. |
actually the Keyboard Strategy can remove content also. but it can't really calculate word boundaries etc. properly. so it's a little hit and miss. and each Strategy (Accessibility and Keyboard) are even more subdivided. because kV doesn't only add Vim moves in text input, but you can also go down lists, dropdowns, menus etc. so even before checking if it can read text data, it checks what kind of AX Element it's dealing with. but there's apps that are so shit that you can't even check this. those ones usually have to go to the 911 Family. last resource to get a semblance of Vim motions. it's really rare that an app is completely unusable. |
btw not sure if you're aware but developers cannot push updates to the Mac App Store using Xcode Beta. which means that if you have apps from the Mac App Store that crash, it's possible that this cannot get fixed before the public release lol so yeah, better avoid betas on your main machine if you're not a developer. i'm trying to figure out here what to do myself. i can install Sequoia on another partition but i'm gonna miss all my tools. or i can install it on my main machine(s) but most probably i'm gonna get disgusted 😂️ so not sure yet. hmm. gonna have to sleep on this tonight. |
More clear. 👌🏻 |
I think I will rashly upgrade to the developer beta version in the future. There are really a lot of problems. I have never understood mac development, and I don’t know that beta cannot be launched on the app store. But aren’t these three tools released through HomeBrew and Github?
Maybe you can install Sequoia in a virtual machine and configure the XCode build tool at the same time. Then set the project folder on the host as a shared folder. I searched and found that XCode has a remote debugging function.
Pay attention to your body, Annoying Monday is here again. Thanks for your hard work again. |
sounds like a new typo lol
kV, Wooshy and Scrolla can't be on the App Store yeah, not allowed. (would love Apple to accept them, then no need to deal with licenses, payments etc.) but they're still notarized by Apple. they're sent to Apple Tim who checks that there's no malicious shit inside and they add their seal of proof so that my apps can run on your system. i'm not sure what is their policy now about notarizing stuff built through Xcode betas.
thought about it but or 1) you do emulation and it's slow af, like not enjoyable using or 2) you do virtualization and it works fine if both the hosts and the guests are at least at the same level. if the host is older than the VM, you're gonna run into issues. it's possible to do it with a bunch of tricks for Sequoia, but i'm not sure it's worth it. i'm probably gonna have not only to test my apps on Sequoia (which i already do) but also develop them on it. if i'm running into issues already because of the VM status, i'm not gonna be sure about what's going on. yeah, not worth it. at least for me. (plus missing all my tools installed to do my dev.)
lol. always. sleep first. good food. work out. all first before the rest. also i'm doing this full time so every day is actually Sunday for me 哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈 |
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@syouSui are you on Intel Mac or Mac silicon? |
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My apologies for making it difficult for you to understand my intention from my poor expression. 😅
You're right, VM is a black box itself, at least for me, and I also don’t know what will happen if the VM system is higher than Host. Maybe in the long run there is only one way that you have to upgrade to macos15 to develop apps, but now there is only developer beta version. Or you upgrade to macos15 until next OS version at least is Public Beta, or upgrade developer beta now under some disgusting bugs. But you would better to upgrade later. And now I can continue to use KE that I have been using for the past few years to execute simple motion and select by CAPSLOCK + wsadikjl , and using a new found app named 'HomeRow' with a way like the vim plugs: 'EasyMotion' to mock mouse click using keyboard. It's basically enough for other situation outside my IDE. At least, thanks for all vim imaiate plugs in IDE working well, such as IDEAVim or VSCodeVim. Otherwise, I will take leave and go home to roll back to macos14. ( beacase no vim no coding for me ). I'm just looking forwork to KV's UI move like using hjkl to move In mill. Whatever, I'm waiting, 哈哈哈~
It's enviable living! 不上班自由自在是真好, 我今天618凑单网购还得提心吊胆摸鱼别被抓现行😂 |
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Please ignore my misoperation. |
i've installed the Beta on my MacBook Air. i keep my main machine (mini) on the latest Sonoma. still acceptable trade-off. i use the MBA mostly when i'm outside. for research, experimentations etc. should work out fine.
Homerow has copied Wooshy's search text feature, and even the GitHub repo doc style thing lol. but if you like to use labels instead of search then it's imo the best tool out there. i built Wooshy because Homerow's ancestor Vimac was way too slow for me. but when Wooshy came out, i think Dexter rewrote Vimac to make it fast, but still using labels. now text search is possible, which makes it a great competitor to Wooshy. also everybody hates subscriptions lol. Homerow is not a sub. got myself a lifetime license to support Dexter but 1) no update since then 2) he sold the app to somebody else. so not sure what's gonna happen with the license model. quite disappointing.
哈哈哈哈哈哈 |
you're in luck. i may have a version working on Apple silicon only in a few hours. will update you. |
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@syouSui 你可以try那些吗： kindaVim.app.zip but they're not signed and notarized, so you'll have to force-opening them through the Privacy bullshit thing. if they work use those ones first. i'll update you when you can switch to proper releases. |
Thanks!!!! Something unpleasant happened yesterday. I ran out all day and missed the first experience. |
I just download the two apps, KV is running now, but Wooshy alert 'Wosshy is damaged xxx can't open xxxx' until I execute 'xattr -cr ~/Downloads/Wooshy.app'. Now they all can work now on my sys. And I can't wait to explore the apps ~~ Thank you for hard work for them to adapt to the new system quickly again!!! |
哈哈, 我用 vim 学习和工作5年了, 但是指导最近才发现系统级的vim辅助工具. And I will try them these days and find the ultimate way to put the mouse in a drawer don't use them again on coding. |
618 shopping lol |
ok good. yeah the non signing/notarizing makes macOS go crazy. enjoy! make sure keep the "automatically update" unchecked for now. |
well once you're used to Vim motions, you want them everywhere hehe |
there's still a lot of work to do. on all three apps. kV needs plugins and custom mappings. Wooshy needs custom mappings, and stop stealing windows focus. Scrolla needs custom mappings, some system to move the cursor around, stop stealing windows focus. and a whole bunch of other stuff. lifetime projects. |
However, it is not. An electric bike hit my car buttock when I gonna turn right on the way to company yesterday morning, and he failed side. Then something troublesome started. Call insurance, call traffic police, call 120, go to the hospital, sign the responsibility letter, and spend half a day. In the end, I took 100 percent responsibility under the persuasion of PC at the same time due to humanitarian reasons although the truth is he struck my car. Fortunately among misfortunes, he was fine just bruised and SALI compensated him 2,000 CNY. The troublesome thing is that the tiny dents need to be repaired on the entire surface, and what's even more coincidental is that they are exactly distributed on three surfaces. And I had to fix the dent he made on my car. It’s really uncomfortable for my obsessive-compulsive disorder. I think it’s time to fix all the things I’ve been dissatisfied with. I’ll find a commercial insurance claims adjuster and wait until next month when I’m not busy. Finally, I went to eat 海底捞 with my friends and then went home to pet the cat. After that, I felt much better. Terrible Morning and Evening peaks, warming friends and cat, another busy day passed. 真的是太巧了... 他人没事只是擦伤, 我车没事只是有两个小小的凹坑. 他说他头疼, 我看着小凹坑心疼. 😶🌫️ |
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@syouSui iPhone Mirroring works on beta2. it's good. |
yeah yeah, I have enjoyed it for a few days, better than my expectation. |
Hello!
I just discovered this great app "KindaVim" today, but can't open it on the latest Mac system (MacOs15 Sequoia Beta1).
My colleague uses this app well on macos14.
I upgraded to the latest macos yesterday to try out the new features, but nothing... trying to downgrade to macos14 now.
Can u start trying to adapt to macos15, or can I build a version locally?
Thanks!
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